Oil advice and recomendations!

[oilman]

Dear Member,

My name is Simon Barnard and I own an oil distribution business in the South West.

I have been invited by the MKIV SUPRA Car Club to run an ?Oil Advice and Recommendations? service for your Club, which is a registered Member of our Clubs Oil Scheme for which this is a FREE service.

We deliver all oils by AMTRAK ?overnight? service anywhere in mainland UK.

I have not posted this topic to advertise my Company and will be publishing no prices here on the General Forum. Prices can be obtained by email.

sales@opieoils.co.uk

I?m here to answer questions, give advice and recommendations to the Members of this Club. I accept that everyone knows everything there is to know about oil, and the best oils to use in their cars, so it may fall on deaf ears, but most Clubs find my services and prices a benefit to their Members.

Hopefully I can at least expose some of the myths and give sound "technical" advice.

I would like to point out that, I sell Castrol, Mobil, Silkolene, Fuchs and Total Oils and have no particular loyalty to one brand (Customers buy what they are comfortable with) however, I normally recommend oils based on the following criteria:

1) Technical Specifications

2) Quality compared to others of the same performance

3) Price comparisons (VFM)

Naturally, I have my favourites, but this is based on their quality and performance.

Many of the oils I sell are not available in the shops but are specialist oils only available through Authorised Distributors like myself (e.g. I don't sell Magnatec but do supply Castrol Performance products not available in the shops).

On a public forum there are drawbacks, especially if the product is made by a supplier of mine so I may "duck" some questions and reply to you personally by PM.

My opinions are frank but based on facts so I'll apologise in advance if I upset anyone. I will ALWAYS give you the "best advice", but you don't have to take it.

I look forward to being of service to MKIV SUPRA Car Club Members and Forum users.

Simon Barnard
Partner
Opie Oils

[oilman]

Now you've read the blurb, this thread is for Oil advice and recommendations.

A few points:

My advice is independent as I sell 5 brands of oil. It is always based on technical comparisons of how good the oils actually are and of course from a quality point of view I have my personal favorites!

To give the proper advice, I stick to the Manufacturers recommended viscosity and API specs but can advise on other options should one wish to stray from these.

On some topics I will need time to get back to you as I may need to talk to oil chemists and boffins.

When recommending an oil, the following info is very helpful to me:

Make
Model
Year
Engine Size
Engine Type
Any Modifications

What oil do you currently use?

I hope that I can be of assistance to you all.

Cheers

Simon.

[Martin F]

Good to have you on board Simon.

[oilman]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Martin F @ Aug. 09 2004,10:37)]Good to have you on board Simon.

Martin,

Thanks for the welcome. I look forward to being here.

Cheers

Simon.

You have probably been asked this question hundreds of times, but I just bought my supra and unsure on which oil to use. It is a 1993 Twin Turbo RZ running on about 1.2 Bar Boost most of the time.

Can you advise me what make and grade will be suitable for the car.

Thanks

[suprastone]

I know nothing about the sticky stuff, but have been told that the sooner i change my oil to totally sinthetic the better-whatever that means! 1994 3.0 auto n/a import. cheers

[oilman]

The easy part is recommending an oil the hard part is the quality which is difficult due to the labelling "synthetic" however I will cover that in my next post.

The standard recommendation is for 10w-40 semi or fully synthetic however, depending on the set up of your car and driving style, you may have to consider a different viscosity.

5w-40 instead of 10w-40
This viscosity gives better cold start protection (where the majority of the engine wear occurs) as it circulates better when cold so it's better for normal driving and lots of cold starts.

10w-50 instead of 10w-40
This will give you better protection if you are doing hard driving and track days etc.

As a guide to selecting the correct all, hopefully the following explains the reasons why you would go thicker or thinner but never stray to far out of grade!

Surely the thicker the oil the better!

This isn't always true - even when using a petroleum oil. Although it is true that heavier viscosity oils (which are generally thought of as being thicker) will hold up better under heavy loads and high temperatures, this doesn't necessarily make them a better choice for all applications.
On many newer vehicles only 0w-40, 5w40 or 10w40 engine oils are recommended by the manufacturer. If you choose to use a higher viscosity oil than what is recommended, at the very least you are likely to reduce performance of the engine. Fuel economy will likely go down and engine performance will drop.
In the winter months it is highly recommended that you not use a heavier grade oil than what is recommended by the manufacturer. In cold start conditions you could very well be causing more engine wear than when using a lighter viscosity oil. In the summer months, going to a heavier grade is less of an issue, but there are still some things to be aware of.

Moving one grade up from the recommended viscosity is not likely to cause any problems (say from a 10w40 to a 10w50 oil). The differences in pumping and flow resitance will be slight. Although, efficiency of the engine will decrease, the oil will likely still flow adequately through the engine to maintain proper protection. However, it will not likely protect any better than the lighter weight oil recommended by the manufacturer.
Moving two grades up from the recommended viscosity (say 10w40 to 10w-60) is a little more extreme and could cause long term engine damage if not short term. Although the oil will still probably flow ok through the engine, it is a heavier visocosity oil. As such it will be more difficult to pump the oil through the engine. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction means more heat. In other words, by going to a thicker oil in the summer months, you may actually be causing more heat build-up within the engine. You'll still be providing adequate protection from metal to metal contact in the engine by going with a high viscosity, but the higher viscosity will raise engine temperatures.
In the short run, this is no big deal. However, over the long term, when engine components are run at higher temperatures, they WILL wear out more quickly. As such, if you intend on keeping the vehicle for awhile, keep this in mind if you're considering using a heavier weight oil than the manufacturer recommends.
The best advice is to is to stay away from viscosity grades that are not mentioned in your owner's manual.

Cheers
Simon

[oilman]

Due to the court case in the states between Mobil and Castrol, you may not always be getting what you think you are so be careful, hydrocracked oils are not synthetics in the true sense of the word as they are molecularly converted petroleum oils, synthetics are not, they are built by chemists in laboratories "brick by brick" and are far superior.

Unfortunately, apart from in Germany, a manufacturer can label the inferior "hydrocracked" oils as synthetics and therefore the only true way of working out the quality is price although even this is not certain as there are some very expensive "hydrocracked" oils out there which are sold on their brand name, Castrol is a good example as they were the Company that Mobil took to court over the labelling issues.

Here is some more reading for those interested:

"HYDROCRACKED" (HC) or MOLECULARLY CONVERTED (MC) BASESTOCKS

There are many petroleum oils available on the market that are so pure and refined, they can now be passed off as synthetics. They are not made from true synthetic basestocks (at least not in the way that synthetics have traditionally been defined), but they have so little in common with traditional
petroleum basestocks, it is really somewhat silly to classify them as petroleum oils.
Petroleum oil basestocks can be put through a super-extreme refining process called
"hydrocracking". In some cases, as in the case of one particular name-brand "synthetic" oil, these highly refined petroleum basestocks can actually be termed and sold as "synthetic".
It is completely legal for lubricants manufacturers to label these oils as "synthetic".

These are extremely high performance petroleum basestocks, but they are not truly synthetic the way that most people understand the term and will not necessarily perform to the same level as a premium synthetic oil like PAO (poly alfa olefins) or Esters.

Hydrocracking involves changing the actual structure of many of the oil basestock molecules by breaking and fragmenting different molecular structures into far more stable ones. This results in a basestock which has far better thermal and oxidative stability as well as a better ability to maintain proper viscosity through a wide temperature range - when compared to a typical petroleum basestock.

Although contaminants are still present, and these are still petroleum basestocks, contamination is minimal and performance characteristics are high. This process also can turn a wider range of crude oil stock into well-performing petroleum lubricant basestocks.

TYPES OF SYNTHETIC BASESTOCKS

Synthetic basestocks are not all the same. There are few different chemical types that may be used as synthetic basestock fluids. There are only three that are seen commonly in automotive applications:

Polyalphaolefins (PAO's)
These are the most common synthetic basestocks used in the US and in Europe. In fact, many synthetics on the market use PAO basestocks exclusively. PAO's are also called synthesized hydrocarbons and contain absolutely no wax, metals, sulfur or phosphorous. Viscosity indexes for nearly all PAO's are around 150, and they have extremely low pour points (normally below 40 degrees F).
Although PAO's are also very thermally stable, there are a couple of drawbacks to using PAO basestocks. One drawback to using PAO's is that they are not as oxidatively stable as other synthetics. But, when properly additized, oxidative stability can be achieved.

Diesters
These synthetic basestocks offer many of the same benefits of PAO's but are more varied in structure. Therefore, their performance characteristics vary more than PAO's do. Nevertheless, if chosen carefully, diesters generally provide better pour points than PAO's (about -60 to -80 degrees F) and are a little more oxidatively stable when properly additized.
Diesters also have very good inherent solvency characteristics which means that not only do they burn cleanly, they also clean out deposits left behind by other lubricants - even without the aid of detergency additives. They do have one extra benefit though, they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), PAOs are not polar, they are inert.

Polyolesters
Similar to diesters, but slightly more complex. Greater range of pour points and viscosity indexes than diesters, but some polyolester basestocks will outperform diesters with pour points as low as -90 degrees F and viscosity indexes as high as 160 (without VI additive improvers). They are also polar.

Other synthetic basestocks exist but are not nearly as widely used as those above - especially in automotive type applications. Most synthetics on the market will use a single PAO basestock combined with an adequate additive package to provide a medium quality synthetic lubricant. However, PAO basestocks are not all the same. Their final lubricating characteristics depend on the chemical reactions used to create them.

Premium quality synthetics will blend more than one "species" of PAO and/or will blend these PAO basestocks with a certain amount of diester or polyolester in order to create a basestock which combines all of the relative benefits of these different basestocks.

This requires a great deal of experience and expertise. As a result, such basestock blending is rare within the synthetic lubricants industry and only done by very experienced companies. In addition, although such blending creates extremely high quality synthetic oils, they don't come cheap. ?You get what you pay for!

Cheers
Simon

[Martin F]

I'm guessing here that HC or MC base stock oils are cheaper to manufacture than true synthetic ones, is that the case ?

[oilman]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Martin F @ Aug. 09 2004,19:59)]I'm guessing here that HC or MC base stock oils are cheaper to manufacture than true synthetic ones, is that the case ?

Yep, your spot on.

HC and MC oils are relativley cheap to produce so are quite cheep to buy. PAO/ESTERS are not cheep to produce so more expensive to buy.

Remember you get what to pay for when it come to the difference in these.

Cheers

Guy.